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  • Reply to: Documenting specific Online Database Entries (Canadian Archives)   7 hours 33 min ago

    Dear Editor;

    I worked through your logic and believe I understand what you've stated. Part A is more for my own notes, but I do need some help with Part B (a slight variation to what you already described).

    A) I have a few notes/observations regarding what I read.

    1. Page 253 in the book is image 259 in the ebook. (As a suggestion for posts referencing the EE book: The "page" numbers in the electronic edition are offset from the paper copy and are actually image numbers. When making a post, if possible, it would be helpful to state both references or state which medium one is referencing.)
    2. Use of a database presents a unique problem in documenting the item which one has consulted. Databases may require navigating one or more levels of indirection, prior to arriving at the page to be documented. One uses the URL for the page from which derived the information. Not any of the ones used to reach that page.
    3. Having navigated the database, “Census of the Prairie Provinces, 1916”, to the page, "http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/item.aspx?itemid=1190641", one would use the model, "QuickCheck Model (DERIVATIVES &AIDS DATABASE, ONLINE)", found on Page 253 (Image 259) of "Evidence Explained" (3rd. ed.).

    B) Here there is a bit of a wrinkle, which I need to overcome. I usually download and transcribe from the actual census image, since I have a very good set of tools for image enhancement and transcription. I normally do not assume that the transcribed information from the page, which"hot-links" to the image, is necessarily correct. The "DSchloendorf" error in the LAC database is a good example of why I do this. So; I have noted some very specific questions about this situation.

    1. One could procede to further levels of indirection and view one of the two forms of the page image, which are accessed via "hot-links" on the previously noted page. For example; assume one accesses, "JPG (Image No.: 31228_4363965-00873)". At that point, an image is displayed. This no longer becomes a case of referencing information from an online database and the previously noted template would no longer apply.
    2. Would one not need to then utilize the model, "QuickCheck Model (DIGITAL IMAGES FEDERAL CENSUS (U.S.)", found on Page 237 (Image 243) of "Evidence Explained" (3rd. ed.)? While the model shows a U.S. census, the structure appears to be appropriate to documenting Canadian Census images. If the anticipated template is not the correct one, which would be the correct one to use? It might resolve the questions in point #3.
    3. Having navigated to the actual census image, as noted above, the URL for the image is now, "http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/006003/t-21936/jpg/31228_4363965-00873.jpg". Does the, "URL (DIGITAL LOCATION)", now become, "data2.collectionscanada.ca", or ,"data2.collectionscanada.ca/006003/t-21936/jpg/31228_4363965-00873.jpg"? What does one use for the, "CREDIT LINE (SOURCE OF THIS SOURCE)"? Does one now reference back to the information  about the media noted in previous level of indirection (web-page) and state, "citing LAC microfilm publication T-21936, reference R233-47-9-E, item number 1190641"?
  • Reply to: Documenting specific Online Database Entries (Canadian Archives)   9 hours 15 min ago

    Dear Editor;

    Thank you so much for taking the time to answer at length!

    My apologies for apparently posting some followup on where I am in working the issue while you were posting your reply. I'll will print out your last email and work through it.

    As a side-note: I always keep notes on exactly how I found a specific image and usually embed that information in the "Description/Comments" ITC field of my archived copy of the image. Sometimes that helps when a link gets broken or I've missed some information. So; I'll be able to go back and clean up the issues I have upon studying your response.

  • Reply to: Documenting specific Online Database Entries (Canadian Archives)   9 hours 26 min ago

    History Hunter, let’s go back to your original message where you wrote:

    I read over the sections of Evidence Explained that relate to Online Database Entries (Canaiian Archives). I am having a little problem understanding the functionality of each of the segments of the "First Reference." I would have expected, as a real example, the "First Reference" to be something like:

        Note 1. “1916 Census (Prairie provinces),” database, Library and Archives Canada (http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/1916.aspx: accessed 23 Mar 2017), entry for Richard Dschloendorf (age 46) (province Saskatchewan), LAC microfilm T-21936, Image 31228_4363965-00873; citing Schedule #1 (population), Saskatchewan, Humboldt district 18, subdistrict 26, p. 9, dwelling 93, family 97.

    As background for the readers of this thread, the reference section of EE is 6.50 and the pattern for citing the database entry is this:

    First Reference Note

          1. “1871 Census (Ontario),” database, Library and Archives Canada (http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1871-on/Pages/1871-on.aspx : accessed 1 April 2015), entry for Patrick Lennon (age 67), Ellice, Perth North District; citing division 1, p. 36, LAC microfilm C-9940.

    You will notice that

    • each chapter (except for 1 and 2 that cover fundamentals) treats a different type of source (cemeteries, church records, censuses, etc.).
    • At the start of each chapter are QuickCheck Models that (a) diagram citations to that type of source and (b) label the function of each element. (The purpose of the QuickCheck Models is to help users understand what elements are essential for the record type that chapter covers.) 

    Following the QC Model on p. 253, the elements of the 1871 census reference above are these:

      Database Title: 

      “1871 Census (Ontario)”

      Item Type or Format:

      database

      Website Title:

      Library and Archives Canada

      URL:

      http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1871-on/Pages/1871-on.aspx

      Date:

      Accessed 1 April 2015

      Item of Interest

      Entry for Patrick Lennon (age 67), Ellice, Perth North District

      Source of the Source

      Citing division 1, p. 36, LAC microfilm C-9940.

     

    Following this pattern and using the URL that you give, to take me to (ostensibly) the same page you are viewing, the elements of the citation to your 1916 database entry would be this:

      Database Title:  

      “Census of the Prairie Provinces, 1916”

      Item Type or Format:

      database

      Website Title:

      Library and Archives Canada

      URL:

      http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/1916.aspx

      Date:

      Accessed 23 March 2017

      Item of Interest

      Entry for Richard “Dschloendorf” (age 46)

      Source of the Source

     Citing item no. 1190641, Saskatchewan Province, Humboldt District, Townships 37 and 38, ranges 17, database Image No.: 31228_4363965-00873v

    To place this data into the format of a First Reference Note:

           1. “Census of the Prairie Provinces, 1916,” database, Library and Archives Canada (http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/1916.aspx : accessed 23 March 2017), entry for Richard “Dschloendorf” (age 46); citing item no. 1190641, Saskatchewan Province, Humboldt District, Townships 37 and 38, ranges 17, database image no.: 31228_4363965-00873v.

    Note:  At this webpage you cite, the data I’m seeing is somewhat different from the data you give above—principally, the database title is different and there is no reference to the microfilm number or schedule number.

    In your first paragraph, you state:

    I can see that the "Source List Entry" essentially documents how one accesses the database search page. In the "First Reference", it makes sense that the next thing to add to the "Source List Entry" string is the search parameters that one needs to use to unambiguously select the desired record. That will get me to the page that shows the information about the page that contains the individual for which I am searching. So far, so good. I follow the EE example. From there, I can select the image hot-link to see the actual image, That gets me to a view of the actual image. If I look at the URL displayed, the LAC microfilm number and image number are present. So; I would have expected the next addition to the "Source List Entry" string would be the microfilm number and image number. After that, everything is essentially a citation of information transcribed from the image.   

    However, the URL that you give does not take us to a page that shows microfilm number or its frame number. To find that data, we must click on the hotlink at “item no. 1190641” and that will take us to a different page—with a different URL—that gives us more details. 

    If this second page is the one we take our information from, then we need to cite that specific URL.  Using that database page for our citation, we’d have this:

          1. “Census of the Prairie Provinces, 1916,” database, Library and Archives Canada (lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/item.aspx?itemid=1190641 : accessed 23 March 2017), entry for Richard “Dschloendorf” (age 46); citingSaskatchewan Province, Humboldt District No. 18, Subdistrict 26 (Townships 37 and 38, ranges 17), Meridian W2, Range no. 18, Family Number  97, page no. 9, lie number 35, Microfilm T-21936, Reference no. R233-47-9-E, Item No. 1190641.

    The citation pattern remains the same, although we have (a) a different URL; and (b) much more explicit “source of the source” information.

    In specific answer to your statement:

    If I look at the URL displayed, the LAC microfilm number and image number are present. So; I would have expected the next addition to the "Source List Entry" string would be the microfilm number and image number.

    No, the “expected next addition” after the URL cannot be the microfilm number and image that you did not use.  Two basic rules are relevant here:

    1.

    Published sources follow the same basic pattern, whether they are published in print or online.  EE 2.32 “Online Materials: Basic Elements to Cite” (and the Quick Start Guide) tell us:

    Rule 1: Most websites are the online equivalent of a book.

    Rule 2: A website that offers multiple items by different creators is the equivalent of a book with chapters by different authors.

    Therefore, the basic pattern for citing a database at a website (or a chapter in a book) would be this:

          1. Name of Chapter/Database Author ( if the database has an author), “Title of Chapter or Database,” Name of Book Editor or Website Creator (unless it’s the same as the website title), Title of Book or Website (Place of publication = URL : Date), page/figure/database items/etc.

     

    2.

    We cite what we use.  In this case, you are using the database, so you cite the database. Not the image. Not the microfilm. You are citing what you actually used. To that citation then—to help you and others find the original source--you should add your source’s citation to whatever your source used.

    We should never imply that we used what we didn’t use. Therefore, when we give the basic citation to the database, we don’t jump from there to a citation of the microfilm we didn’t use.  What follows is a citation to the specific database item that we’re referencing: i.e., Richard Dschloendorf.

    Next issue:

    Two other small tweaks would also help the citation you drafted in your first message.

    • You state that Richard’s surname was actuallly Schloendorf, rather than Dschloendorg. It’s important in these cases to note the misspelling in the database, given that you are citing the database. The conventional way of doing it is to put the misspellingin quotation marks, given that you are quoting the database exactly. You might, if you wished, place the correct spelling immediately after the incorrect spelling, with your addition in square editorial brackets.
    • Notice that EE adds a blank space after the URL, before the colon that separates the URL from the date. Without that blank space before it, the colon becomes part of the URL and then the URL does not work.

    Hope this helps!

  • Reply to: Documenting specific Online Database Entries (Canadian Archives)   9 hours 40 min ago

    Dear Editor;

    I've tried my best to refine the references and would like to know if the format is now reasonably correct:

    First Reference Note:
    1916 Census (Prairie provinces), Humboldt, Saskatchewan, population schedule, district 18, subdistrict 26, 9, dwelling 93, family 97, Household of Richard Schloendorf; digital images, Library and Archives Canada (http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/006003/t-21936/jpg/31228_4363965-00873.jpg : accessed 23 March 2017).

    Subsequent Note:
    1916 Census (Prairie provinces), Humboldt, Saskatchewan, population schedule, dist. 18, subdist. 26, 9, dwelling 93, family 97, Household of Richard Schloendorf.

  • Reply to: Documenting specific Online Database Entries (Canadian Archives)   1 day 4 hours ago

    Dear Editor;

    It seems that directly referencing the LAC Census images is not explicitly covered and so I had to mix and match pieces of other examples. This is what I got for a first try. Is this more in line with what was intended?

    Regards;

    History Hunter

     

    Source List Entry
    "1916 Census (Prairie provinces)." Database and Images. Library and Archives Canada. http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/1916/Pages/1916.aspx: 2017.

    Since the image is not even located on the same server as the search-page, the best I could do in the above is to reference the webpage through which I located the image.

    First Reference Note
        1. "1916 Census (Prairie provinces)", Schedule #1 (population), Saskatchewan, Humboldt district 18, subdistrict 26; p. 9, dwelling 93, family 97, Household of Richard DSchloendorf; digital image, Library and Archives Canada, Census of the Prairie Provinces, 1916 (http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/006003/t-21936/jpg/31228_4363965-00873.jpg: accessed 23 Mar 2017).

    For the above, I went back and tried my best to follow the "Layered Citation: Courthouse Record Digitized Online".

    Subsequent Note
        11. "1916 Census (Prairie provinces)", Library and Archives Canada, digital image showing the household of Richard DSchloendorf, Humboldt, Saskatchewan.

    The above is an abbreviated form of the, First Reference Note.